What if your job doesn't need to be your passion?
Audio: https://www.thepozcast.com/541
Jessica Zwaan, VP of People and Strategy Ops at Leapsome and author of Built for People and Purpose and Work, joins Adam Posner to challenge some of the biggest assumptions we've been taught about careers, workplace culture, purpose, and success.
Jessica argues that there is nothing wrong with seeing your job as a job. Work can provide money, flexibility, opportunities, relationships, or the freedom to pursue what actually gives your life meaning. You don't need to wake up every morning believing your company's mission is your life's calling to be great at what you do.
Adam and Jessica also dig into why traditional corporate culture feels increasingly outdated, why the conventional 9-to-5 employment model is changing, how HR can operate more like a product organization, and what AI could mean for jobs and early-career workers.
Jessica also shares her own unconventional journey from rural Australia to New York City, why she initially turned down her current role, what writing her second book taught her about her own relationship with work, and why she ultimately defines success as having enough freedom to be more than one thing.
This conversation reminds us that your career can matter without becoming your entire identity.
Connect with Jess: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jessicamayzwaan/ Check out her new book "Purpose and Work": https://www.koganpage.com/hr-learning-development/purpose-and-work-9781398621947
Learn more about Leapsome: www.leapsome.com
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Key Takeaways:
- You don't need to love your job to be great at it.
- People can view work as a job, career, or vocation, and each orientation can produce motivated, successful employees.
- Purpose doesn't have to come from work. A job can simply enable the family, hobbies, experiences, or lifestyle that gives someone meaning.
- The traditional employment contract is changing. Jessica believes fractional work, freelancing, projects, side businesses, and more flexible working relationships will increasingly challenge the idea of one employer owning someone's professional attention.
- Culture isn't what's written on the wall. Jessica defines culture as what happens in employees' everyday experience, including how managers treat them, how work gets done, and how people experience difficult moments.
- Treat employee experience like a product. Employees effectively subscribe to the experience an organization provides until they decide to cancel by resigning.
- HR should optimize for outcomes, not activity. Start with the problem, test solutions quickly, measure the outcome, and iterate instead of spending months producing programs because they look like HR work.
- AI is changing jobs, not necessarily eliminating work. Jessica expects roles and skill sets to evolve as people find new ways to create value.
- Early-career talent may face the biggest AI disruption. Both Adam and Jessica identify traditional entry-level career paths as an area requiring serious reinvention.
- Your career should not be your entire identity. Jessica's definition of success centers on having enough variety and freedom to be more than one thing.
Chapters:
00:00 Why Your Job Doesn't Have to Be Your Passion
00:29 Welcome to #thePOZcast
00:49 Meet Jessica Zwaan
02:02 From Rural Australia to the People Business
03:42 Choosing University Without Knowing What You Want
06:23 Why Jessica Chose Corporate HR Over Publishing
07:30 Do You Have to Love Your Job to Be Successful?
10:55 The Societal BS Around "Meaningful" Work
12:12 When Jessica Realized Corporate Culture Was Broken
14:30 What Should We Throw Out About Traditional Work?
16:42 Remote Work, Offices and the Future Workplace
19:25 What Workplace Culture Actually Means
22:33 Treating Employee Experience Like a Product
23:20 Does Everyone Need Purpose at Work?
24:31 How to Understand What Actually Motivates Employees
25:59 What HR Can Learn From Product Teams
27:10 How Jessica Evaluates Career Opportunities
30:25 Why She Initially Turned Down Leapsome
31:55 Writing Purpose and Work
33:42 Who Purpose and Work Is For
34:52 Will AI Replace Jobs?
36:52 Why AI Could Reshape Early Careers
37:48 Jessica's Dream Job
38:51 What's Next for HR and AI
39:44 What Keeps Jessica Up at Night?
40:00 How Jessica Defines Success
41:51 Where to Find Jessica
42:26 Closing
